Music  supervisors are a tremendous resource for any type of media project. This interview is dedicated to displaying their value in our current industry. Carrie Hughes may very well be the QUEEN music supervisor for reality television.

She has worked on such TV Shows as The Sing Off, Fashion Star, The Hills, The Hard Times of RJ …]]>

Music  supervisors are a tremendous resource for any type of media project. This interview is dedicated to displaying their value in our current industry. Carrie Hughes may very well be the QUEEN music supervisor for reality television.

She has worked on such TV Shows as The Sing Off, Fashion Star, The Hills, The Hard Times of RJ Berger, The Real L Word, America’s Best Dance Crew, Braxton Family Values and upcoming projects Wake Brothers and Buck Wild as a music supervisor.

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Jordan Passman: Let’s start with the basics: What is a music supervisor and why would I need one for my project?

Carrie Hughes: A music supervisor oversees all aspects of music in a project.  This includes creative decisions such as shaping the signature sound of the show.  This is done often in conjunction with a composer and based on direction from the executives.  We work to clear all the songs used in a project. We track the cost of all music related expenses to make sure the production does not go over budget.  We also manage delivery schedules with composers etc..

Every project should have a music supervisor, no matter what.  I can’t tell you how many times I have been called to “clean up” a show that didn’t hire a music sup initially.  The bottom line is most producers and editors (love em all) don’t know any real truth about clearance…there are so many mis conceptions out there…”I thought we could use it for like 10 seconds before we have to clear it”…”but the network has an ascap license isn’t that all we need?”..”but they are my friend and said it was cool”.  I could go on and on!

I have also encountered multiple projects that just have artists sign materials releases, which is completely different than a master or sync license and completely invalid for music licensing.  If you need a financial reason Music Supervisors have the experience and knowledge to know what things cost so when you have a music supervisor on a project you can rest easy that you are getting the best deal.

Lastly there is the creative aspect, we can offer insight on music that the average person can’t.  We can take a project to the next level musically and have a substantial impact on the show overall.  I like to give The Real L Word as an example, season one did not have a music supervisor it was basically all library music. Season 2 they brought me in and we completely revamped the shows musically.  It’s one of the projects I am most proud of, there were so many comments online about how much better the show was with the new music direction, that was such a great feeling for me and really shows how a show can benefit from someone thinking about music.  Additionally we are in constant contact with labels and publishers so we know what is being released before the general public and can incorporate that into a project to give it a fresh sound.  I also think we as music supervisors are generally less biased when it comes to music placement.  We are trained to step back and examine the placement and how it works for the project overall versus just putting in a favorite song.     Anyway there are about a million more reasons why you should always hire a music supervisor but I’ll stop there.

JP: How much money should I set aside for licensing music and hiring a music supervisor on my tv show? (I’ve heard your music budget should be 10% of your total budget– is that an accurate rule of thumb?)

CH: It depends, every project is different.  I have heard that 10% number before as well but I have no idea where it came from.  It really depends on the creative vision of the show and the type of show.  Show’s like America’s Best Dance Crew or The Sing Off had to have a decent music budget because they are very music driven whereas shows like Around The World in 80 Plates has a much smaller music budget and relies primarily on composed score.  This is another reason you should hire or at least consult with a music supervisor before you budget your project.  You need to determine what the musical vision for the show is, how many songs do you plan to use and for what rights do you need to clear, all that factors into the budget.  You may determine you can’t afford the music you want for the rights you need so maybe the show needs to do a rescore in which any pop music is replaced with library music for dvd’s or syndication airings.   That is what we did with the hills, they used all major label pop songs in the main broadcast version and then I had to rescore everything with cheaper alternative songs for the dvd’s, so there are just many factors and discussions that should happen before you budget a show that it is impossible to give a general number or percentage.

As for budgeting to hire a supervisor it can vary, some sups get paid weekly, some per episode and everyones rates are different.  It’s similar to producers, both parties just have to negotiate to where they are happy.

JP: Allow me to play dumb for a moment–If I am currently using a very famous song, and it works perfectly with my scene, can I just use it? What are the repercussions if I don’t pay for it? What’s the broad range of fees for music licensing (from baby bands to stadium rockers)? 

CH: No you can not just use it.  Repercussions would be rather expensive lawsuits.  Licensing fees have such a broad range because it all depends on the level of the artists, the type of use, the rights you are requesting it can be as low as $500 for an indie band up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for bigger bands.

JP: The price of a song will always vary depending on the terms of use within the project…what terms of use do you suggest going after for lower budget indie projects?

CH: Well you can deal with lower budgets a few ways.  For TV if you can reduce the rights you are clearing for to maybe TV only for 2 years that is significantly cheaper than clearing for All Media/World Wide/Perpetuity, but then you do have to figure out a plan if you intend to put the show on itunes or dvd and what you will do once the 2 year term is up.  You can also reduce the number of songs you use, If you were hoping to use 5 per episode maybe you can only afford 2 but cleared for the broad rights.  Lastly you can use cheaper music, there is so much great indie music that works just as well as major label pop music but can be licensed for significantly less.  Certain shows can’t get away with that like Dance Crew, Sing Off, Fashion Star, those are big stage shows that people want to hear big recognizable pop songs in but we use all indie stuff in Real L Word and it works very well.  So there is always a way to work with a small budget it’s just a matter of prioritizing.

JP: Do you still see value in music soundtracks? Are these a potential moneymaking avenue for a show or indie film today?

CH: I think there is definitely value in soundtracks, just look at the Twilight soundtrack or Glee.  I think the key is having something special to offer and making sure that the project is the right project to put out a soundtrack.  Not every show should do a soundtrack, it should be a show where music is a key element otherwise it doesn’t make sense.  It should also be mutually beneficial to the artists and the company putting it out.  For example we discussed putting out a soundtrack for The Real L Word but given our low music budget we use all unsigned artists on that show so would that make for good soundtrack sales? I don’t know.  I’d like to think it would do well just based on the reaction of the audience to the music in last season but at the end of the day there is more to it than that.  We wouldn’t have a custom track by Bruno Mars to help promote it and we are also not a network powerhouse show like Glee so is the money we would have to put into marketing it worth it?  We decided no at this point but maybe we’ll re-evalutate after season 3, who knows!.  But I do think if done right they are great for fans of music and as another tool to promote a project or have an additional revenue stream.

JP: What song is stuck in your head right now?

CH: Gotye “Somebody That I Used To Know”…because it’s on the radio every two seconds, it’s ok though I am not sick of yet.

JP: What are some of your favorite bands right now?

CH:  I have quite a few I feel like there is a lot of great music out right now

JP: Where is the best music on TV right now?

CH: I loved song selections in How To Make It In America, Shameless, Sons Of Anarchy, The Secret Circle, just to name a few.  Those are the shows I am most excited about as a music supervisor I feel like every single song placement on those shows is perfect!  The music sups on those do a phenomenal job!

JP: THANK YOU!!!

Passman: What is ASCAP? What do they do and how can they be a resource to filmmakers?

Devine: ASCAP is America’s leading performing rights organization. We’re a membership association owned and run by our more than 420,000 …]]> Jordan Passman (scoreAscore.com) interviews Sue Devine, Senior Director, Creative Services, Film/TV for ASCAP in NYC.

Passman: What is ASCAP? What do they do and how can they be a resource to filmmakers?

Devine: ASCAP is America’s leading performing rights organization. We’re a membership association owned and run by our more than 420,000 U.S. composers, songwriters, lyricists, and music publisher members. We’re home to the greatest names in American music, in all genres, past and present — from Duke Ellington to Katy Perry, George Gershwin to Stevie Wonder, Leonard Bernstein to Beyoncé, Marc Anthony to Alan Jackson, Henry Mancini to Howard Shore — as well as many thousands of writers in the earlier stages of their careers. Through agreements with affiliated international societies, we also represent hundreds of thousands of music creators worldwide.

We’re the only U.S. performing rights organization created and controlled entirely by our members, with a Board of Directors elected by and from the membership. ASCAP’s President & Chairman of the Board, Paul Williams is an Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe-winning Hall of Fame songwriter.

Our core job is to protect the rights of our members by licensing and distributing royalties for the non-dramatic public performances of their copyrighted works. In other words, we pay songwriters and composers royalties when their music is played in public. ASCAP’s licensees, the people who pay us, encompass anyone who wants to perform copyrighted music publicly. That includes radio broadcasters and TV networks, bars and live music venues, websites and streaming music services (e.g. YouTube and Spotify), even Disneyland – most anywhere that music can be heard.

That’s the big picture, but we do much more than collect and distribute money. ASCAP’s Creative Services Department focuses on artist development for composers and songwriters. We interact with filmmakers frequently, helping them connect with the right film composers and songwriters for their projects, and we regularly feature our members at film/TV industry events worldwide. We also run several workshops a year that foster the next generation of professional composing and songwriting talent.

Passman: What licenses for music do filmmakers need to get? And can ASCAP help?

Devine: There are three basic music licenses related to a film or TV production. The first is the Public Performance License, administered by ASCAP and described above. The broadcaster, not the filmmaker, is responsible for this license. I can’t stress that point enough: filmmakers do not need to interact with ASCAP at the licensing level. It’s the broadcasters of film, like HBO for example, that must get a public performance license. That license would cover the use of all ASCAP music in all HBO programming.

Filmmakers are responsible for securing two other types of licenses, and must pay very close attention to them. The filmmaker must get a Synchronization License (synch) from the publisher of the work and a Master Use License from the owner of the master recording of the music (usually the record label or the artist themselves). These two licenses are not administered by ASCAP.

ASCAP can help filmmakers learn about this process. Read the ”How to Acquire Music for Films”, and “Music, Money, Success and the Movies” articles on our website for a solid overview. Filmmakers can use our ACE Title Search to find the writer and publisher information for a musical work they’d like to use in a project.

Passman: Let’s talk now about your Creative Services Department, and connecting filmmakers with film composers.

Devine: While ASCAP’s main role is to license and administer public performance royalties for our members, and to represent it legally and legislatively, ASCAP also has a very strong Creative Services Department that helps develop our members at all stages of their careers, across all genres. In addition to our many emerging songwriter workshops, songwriter retreats, and music industry showcases, several of our programs may be quite useful for filmmakers.

We run three highly competitive film and television scoring workshops. Each is an intensive program, widely recognized as a major educational and networking opportunity for aspiring film, TV and visual media composers. We feature prestigious workshop leaders, mentors and guest speakers from the highest levels of the film and television music industry, side-by-side with hands-on experience with both the technical and creative requirements of scoring to picture.

Filmmakers are welcome to sit in on certain workshop sessions, particularly the scoring sessions. I can’t emphasize enough how useful sitting in on these sessions could be for a filmmaker. When it comes to music in film, filmmakers need to feel the difference music can make, viscerally. That can be experienced in some of our workshop sessions, where you watch the same scene repeatedly with a different score each time. Having an intellectual appreciation for the film music process is very different than experiencing what music is (or is not) contributing to your film.

NYC-based filmmakers can sit in on the first two sessions of the ASCAP Columbia University Film Scoring Workshop, where we walk a select group of thesis filmmakers through the process of hiring their film composer. Anyone interested in  attending one of our workshop scoring sessions can contact me at sdevine@ascap.com.

Every year we run the ASCAP “I Create Music EXPO” in Los Angeles. It’s the premier conference for songwriters, composers and producers within the music industry, and we always feature numerous film music panels that filmmakers would find educational and constructive. It’s a great place to network with composers, too.

Additionally, we recently launched the ASCAP Composer Spotlight on our website, a powerful resource for film, television and video game producers to discover and connect with some of the best and brightest emerging composers. The Composers to Watch section highlights a select group of outstanding composers from our scoring workshops. You can find bios, resumes, website links and sample cues for each composer.

ASCAP also produces the official music programming for the Sundance Film Festival, called the Sundance ASCAP Music Café, along with the ASCAP Composer Spotlight @ Sundance. You can even listen to a Spotify mix of all the featured songwriters and composers.

Passman: Filmmakers constantly struggle with pricing the music for their projects. How do you suggest they go about this difficult process?

Devine: Director Alex Steyermark, formerly a top music supervisor on films for Ang Lee, Spike Lee, Jim Sheridan and many others, once said that filmmakers should be dedicating at least 5% of their overall budgets to music. That is a minimum. If your budget is very low, that percentage will be greater, as you must allocate a minimum budget to cover music. That will include the creative fee for the score, as well as the recording costs for the players, music editor, mixing, etc. It will also include license fees for any songs you use, and those can vary greatly depending on what songs
you’ve set your sights on.

To learn more about this, I highly recommend reading a chapter called “Pricing Your Work” out of ASCAP Board member Richard Bellis’s book The Emerging Film Composer.  While written for a composer audience, that chapter will be quite valuable for filmmakers as well.

Passman: How do filmmakers find film composers?

Devine: There are far more extremely qualified composers who want to score your film than most filmmakers realize. I have long observed a wide gap between the film and music communities at the emerging level: emerging filmmakers and emerging film composers rarely know how to find each other. As a result, many an acclaimed filmmaker has hired his next door neighbor to score a film, because he happens to play piano or slide guitar. While that may suffice, you can
certainly elevate the level of score you bring to your project. We created the ASCAP Composer Spotlight precisely to bridge this gap. Please take a look at The Composers to Watch feature and peruse the Composer Spotlight @ Sundance as well.

And now, a plug for my interviewer: I am very excited about ScoreAscore.com, as it brilliantly cuts through much of the high anxiety that a filmmaker faces that often makes them delay the process of hiring their composer (“I’ve never done this before! How do I know what works for my film?”). You post your clip, you check back in three days, and there will be sample scores for your scene. *Magic.* Right away, you get a feel for which ones work for you, and you can begin a
conversation/interview with those composers.

Beyond that, you can reach out to agents who represent composers that are further along in their careers, from mid-level all the way to the top composers in the industry. If you hire a music supervisor, they will be consulting these resources. Plus, they will have the scoop on the latest up-and-coming composers.

Passman: How do you feel about popular artists like Trent Reznor & Jónsi making a significant impact on the composing world?

Devine: ASCAP works with a wide variety of composers, both classically or otherwise formally trained, as well as songwriters/artists-turned-composers. Many composers have come from backgrounds in television or Broadway music, or in rock/pop or urban songwriting. Great scores certainly come from all of these, and keep the field fresh and exciting. You’re looking for the unique sound, style, composer or artist that resonates with the voice of your film. It’s hard to predict where that will come from.

Passman: Every filmmaker should know about cue sheets. What are cue sheets, why do they exist and how do you file them?

Devine: A cue sheet is a schedule of the music contained in a film or television program. It’s the essential document that ASCAP requires in order to distribute royalties to a film’s composer, any songwriters with songs placed in the film, and the publisher of the score (which is often the film production company). It is normally prepared and delivered to ASCAP by the production company. You can find out everything you need to know about cue sheets at the Cue Sheet Corner section of our website.

Passman: What are some of your favorite film scores of all time?

Devine: I’ll answer a slightly different question, since I was quite struck by a comparison relatively recently. This may illustrate the power of understanding what a score can bring to your film.

A favorite (relatively) recent film score was Carter Burwell’s score to Twilight. It was sweeping, dreamy and dramatic in a way that elevated the film, and held all of its moody, staring-into-eyes scenes together while propelling the movie and characters forward. I watched the film again specifically because of the score.

Compare that to its sequel, New Moon, where the filmmaker chose to have top artists/bands write songs specifically for particular scenes. While strong song placements can often work extremely well, and having the songs custom-written to scenes was intended to further fine-tune these placements so they would carry the film, in this case I feel it didn’t do the narrative justice. While any one of these songs may have nailed the moment and made for a great individual scene,
much was lost in the context of the whole.

Without unifying score/themes/melodies interwoven through these scenes, connecting them from the wider perspective of the arc of the film, these scenes remained as separate islands. Nothing tied them together and helped them build momentum or crescendo sequentially. Nothing integrated them with the scenes that did have score.

As such, in my opinion, the invisible tensions between the characters was lost, the drama was lost, and we were left with characters’ empty staring into eyes, which fell flat. In this case, with fewer song placements and more room for a proper dramatic score, I think the film might have played much more strongly.

Pictured (l-r) at the 2009 ASCAP Film & TV Music Awards: ASCAP President and Chairman of the Board Paul Williams, Twilight composer Carter Burwell and director Catherine Hardwicke, director Bill Condon, ASCAP CEO John LoFrumento. Photo by Lester Cohen/Wireimage.com.